Top 5 Perennial Herbs by USDA Hardiness Zone - Ep. 226

[00:00:00] We all want things to be just a little bit easier in the garden, right? It's part of why I try to plant things in the fall to overwinter that will start growing on their own in the spring. It means less effort on my part during a very busy time in the garden when it seems like everything has to go in all at once. The best low effort thing I can think of in the garden is a perennial, you know, something that doesn't require much in terms of care. And the easiest of these is herbs.

[00:00:30] The idea of planting something once and doing nothing but harvesting it each season and occasionally splitting up some clumps to make more plants sounds like the easiest thing in the garden to accomplish. And let's be honest, herbs can add so much flavor to the other garden goodness that we're bringing into the kitchen and they can be expensive to buy in the grocery store.

[00:00:49] Today on Just Grow Something, we will cover the top 5 perennial herbs to grow by USDA Hardiness Zone. So we'll highlight each herb, the planting and growing requirements and talk about any special conditions that make them more hardy for your area. Because there's nothing more frustrating than to be told something is perennial only to find out it's not perennial in your area. Let's dig in.

[00:01:16] Hey, I'm Karen. I started gardening in a small corner of my suburban backyard and now 18 years later, I've got a degree in horticulture and operate a 40 acre market farm. I believe there is power in food and that everyone should know how to grow at least a little bit of their own. On this podcast, I share evidence based techniques to help you plant, grow, harvest and store all your family's favorites. Consider me your friend in the garden. So grab your garden journal and a cup of coffee and get ready to Just Grow Something.

[00:01:53] Those of you watching on Spotify and YouTube may have noticed the different background. In fact, some of you commented on it last week. Yes, I finally reorganized my office. This is something that I have wanted to do for about three years now, but it always seemed like such a daunting task because there was so much stuff to sort through and to get rid of before I felt like I could even move the furniture around.

[00:02:16] But I have a lot of projects that I'm going to do for about three years now.

[00:02:42] You know, I kept it all because I seriously told myself that I might refer to those things later when it was, you know, for the farm or for the podcast or for consulting services for my clients. And you know what? I haven't referenced a single one of them.

[00:02:56] I look that information up on university websites or in published papers online because A, I know the information is much more up to date than anything that would possibly be in those textbooks or my notes for that matter. And B, it's just much easier to find online. So I tossed them. I pitched them. The only thing I kept was my insect identification guide because I do use that one all the time.

[00:03:19] And I also kept my crop ecology book and my perennial plant guide because that information is pretty timeless as evidenced by the episode that we're doing today on perennials.

[00:03:29] I was able to get this entire office purged, cleaned, rearranged in just a day and a half while still getting all my other things accomplished around here.

[00:03:41] And I know it may sound, I don't know, cliche, but I absolutely will attribute my ability to get that done to my Magic Mind subscription.

[00:03:50] I had the energy to get the task started.

[00:03:53] I had the mental focus to really push through the task and not get distracted by sitting down and reminiscing and looking at old photos or papers.

[00:04:03] You know what I'm talking about, right?

[00:04:05] Where you open something to decide to see if it should be kept only to look up an hour later and you're on the floor with papers or pictures just spread around you and you've absolutely accomplished nothing.

[00:04:15] That did not happen with this project.

[00:04:17] I fully focused on the overall task at hand and my Magic Mind gets the credit for that because that's never happened before.

[00:04:26] So much so that my husband even noticed and he has decided to try Magic Mind now.

[00:04:33] And this is a guy that doesn't do supplements or anything, so that tells you something.

[00:04:37] Thankfully, the Magic Mind subscription is super easy to update online so I could easily upgrade my subscription from 15 bottles per month to 30 to accommodate him using it.

[00:04:48] And if for some reason he changes his mind, which I can't imagine happening, but I can just as easily change it back and it will still come as regularly scheduled every single month.

[00:04:58] So there's no break in my productivity flow.

[00:05:00] So if you want to join my husband now and me in subscribing to Magic Mind, they're giving you 20% off the already reduced subscription price and shipping is always free with a subscription.

[00:05:14] So just go to magicmind.com slash grow something 20 and use code grow something 20 at checkout.

[00:05:21] And then tell me all about your next super productive project afterwards.

[00:05:25] The link will be in the show notes.

[00:05:27] I will also have a link to the Gardener's Gift Guide that I was telling you about last week in the show notes as well.

[00:05:35] It's still in the beginning stages, so as I get more complete with it, I will absolutely sort of email out the link and the list.

[00:05:43] But I wanted whatever was available to be posted in time for you to do your first round of holiday shopping.

[00:05:48] I will continue to update this as deals come across my desk and as they change throughout the season.

[00:05:54] Because you know a lot of these companies will do multiple deals over like the next six weeks or so.

[00:06:00] So I will keep it as up to date as I can.

[00:06:03] And if there is a particular product or products that you are looking for deals or discounts on, let me know.

[00:06:10] I'll keep an eye out and I will put those on the list as I find them as well.

[00:06:17] Okay, so we are going to do a breakdown of the top perennial herbs across USDA growing zones 3 through 10,

[00:06:26] along with a few suggested cultivars that do best in those areas and some growing practices and care tips.

[00:06:33] As we go through these, keep in mind, if I mention something as a perennial in a zone that is colder than the one you live in,

[00:06:42] that means it's also likely to be a perennial where you garden.

[00:06:47] So the exception to this would be some that really love the cooler climates.

[00:06:51] And so they may not do as well like in zones 8 and warmer.

[00:06:55] So as we start with zones 3 and 4, my zones 5 and warmer gardeners,

[00:07:00] you should listen up too because these herbs will also make your perennial list longer.

[00:07:05] So as we start with zones 3 and 4, we're going to talk about chives.

[00:07:10] These are one of my favorite perennials.

[00:07:12] These will take full sun.

[00:07:14] They will also take partial shade, which is fantastic.

[00:07:18] They do prefer well-drained soil, but I will tell you in my experience,

[00:07:23] they aren't super, super picky about that unless they are being flooded.

[00:07:27] I had chives that I brought over from our 5-acre homestead to our 40-acre farm years ago,

[00:07:34] and I never got them transplanted.

[00:07:36] They sat in this sort of clay soil inside these paper-based pots for 3 years outside of my greenhouse,

[00:07:47] and they were saturated quite a lot of the time.

[00:07:52] And they survived long enough for me after those 3 years to go ahead and transplant them into beds outside of my office window.

[00:08:00] That spot gets part shade.

[00:08:03] So they did fabulously well there until the drain on my roof or the gutter outside of my office started to get backed up

[00:08:14] or it was damaged or something, and so there was nothing but water just pouring straight into those beds.

[00:08:20] And that was the year that I lost one of those chives.

[00:08:23] They literally drowned.

[00:08:24] So even though they do prefer well-drained soil, they will take a little bit of abuse, okay?

[00:08:28] You want to space these initially about 6 to 12 inches apart.

[00:08:32] They will fill in, so you are going to want to divide those clumps up about every 3 to 4 years in the early spring,

[00:08:40] and then you just get more plants out of them.

[00:08:42] Common chives are going to be very hardy.

[00:08:46] There is also a variety called perfusion that is great for zones 3 and 4, really hardy in your area.

[00:08:52] These will spread kind of under the ground where they continue to sprout up in and amongst that clump,

[00:09:00] but they will also self-seed if you allow them to.

[00:09:03] So you can allow some of those flowers to mature for seed production and self-seeding,

[00:09:07] but you want to cut back the rest of it to continue to encourage that leafy growth,

[00:09:12] and you can continue to use chives all season long.

[00:09:14] So lovage is your second one.

[00:09:17] This loves cool climates.

[00:09:18] It does best in full sun with kind of a rich, loamy soil.

[00:09:22] This is unusual for most herbs.

[00:09:23] Usually they don't really care too much about the condition of the soil,

[00:09:27] but lovage is a little bit of an exception to that.

[00:09:29] So give it some nutrients and give it some good organic matter.

[00:09:33] You also want to give each of these plants about 2 to 3 feet of space because they will bush out.

[00:09:39] Lovage prefers consistently moist soil.

[00:09:42] So maybe this is something that I ought to replace those chives with outside of my window there.

[00:09:46] In fact, you want to water them regularly and you do want to mulch to retain that soil moisture,

[00:09:50] especially if you go through very dry periods.

[00:09:53] This one is not very widely cultivated, so you're not going to find a bunch of different cultivars for this,

[00:09:59] but common lovage is very, very hardy in your area.

[00:10:01] If you're not familiar with lovage, it has a celery-like flavor.

[00:10:06] So if you're somewhere where your growing season is too short to grow like a full-blown celery,

[00:10:12] lovage is a really good option for that.

[00:10:14] You just harvest the leaves and they give you that celery-like flavor.

[00:10:16] And then once they have flowered, you can cut the stems to the ground

[00:10:20] and you will get some regrowth off of them as well.

[00:10:23] Third on the list for zones 3 and 4 is horseradish.

[00:10:26] So full sun is ideal for horseradish, although it does tolerate partial shade.

[00:10:32] It likes a good moist soil.

[00:10:35] You want to space them about 18 inches apart.

[00:10:37] Water it very deeply and regularly during dry periods because it does need that moisture to grow.

[00:10:42] And you are going to harvest those roots in the late fall.

[00:10:46] So, you know, that's the part that we eat of horseradish is that root or that rhizome.

[00:10:52] So you're going to harvest some of that, leave the remainder to overwinter for it to be able to come back in the spring.

[00:10:58] And just common horseradish is what you're looking for.

[00:11:00] You do need to be mindful, though, that if it likes the spot that it's in, horseradish will spread very, very easily.

[00:11:07] So if you are concerned about that, you either want to use some sort of a root barrier,

[00:11:13] which is something that you would bury in the ground around the plant to make sure that it doesn't spread,

[00:11:17] or just plant it in containers.

[00:11:20] And if you're going to plant it in a container as a perennial,

[00:11:22] you are going to want to pull those containers up near a protected area for overwintering in zones three and four,

[00:11:29] because obviously that soil is going to be more exposed to the elements being up out of the ground.

[00:11:34] So you want to pull it up next to, you know, your shed or next to your house,

[00:11:39] even bring it into, you know, an unheated basement if necessary,

[00:11:43] just to kind of keep it protected if you do do it in a container.

[00:11:48] Number four is thyme.

[00:11:50] And this is another one that requires well-drained soil.

[00:11:54] It does not like its feet wet.

[00:11:57] As a matter of fact, it prefers those drier conditions.

[00:12:01] You can space thyme about six to 12 inches apart.

[00:12:04] They will sort of form this small bush.

[00:12:07] German winter thyme and English thyme are the two that I would recommend

[00:12:10] in zones three and four as being the most hardy.

[00:12:14] And if you're concerned about the drainage,

[00:12:16] you can use rocks or gravel as a mulch to kind of help promote better drainage,

[00:12:21] especially during the colder months.

[00:12:24] And then number five is oregano.

[00:12:26] And I actually pair thyme and oregano together in their beds.

[00:12:29] They both like that full sun.

[00:12:31] They kind of like that light, sandy, well-draining soil.

[00:12:35] And the oregano tends to get a little bit bigger.

[00:12:37] So you want to plant those about eight to 12 inches apart.

[00:12:41] So what I do in my bed is I have oregano in the center.

[00:12:44] And then I have four thyme plants in each of the corners.

[00:12:48] And they're all spaced nicely apart.

[00:12:50] The one thing about oregano is it will get leggy if you don't keep it trimmed back.

[00:12:57] So you want to trim those stems to promote that bushy growth.

[00:13:01] And just like thyme, it actually prefers a drier condition.

[00:13:05] So you should be watering it sparingly, if at all.

[00:13:08] Greek oregano is a really hardy variety in just about any area.

[00:13:13] And once again, just like the thyme,

[00:13:15] if you're worried about that drainage, you can mulch with rocks.

[00:13:19] Not only will it kind of reflect the heat in cooler areas,

[00:13:22] but it will also help with that drainage.

[00:13:25] Moving on to zones five through six.

[00:13:28] First one that comes up for me is sage.

[00:13:30] Of course, we're talking about my zone.

[00:13:31] We're in 6B and I have grown sage before to where it just gets to be a nice, big, beautiful bush.

[00:13:38] This is one that does like the full sun.

[00:13:40] It also likes that well-drained soil.

[00:13:42] You want to space these about 12 to 18 inches apart because they will fill in nicely.

[00:13:47] To prevent them from getting really woody, you're going to want to cut it back in the spring

[00:13:52] and allow that new growth to come up early on.

[00:13:57] Eventually, you might have to replace the plant.

[00:14:00] This is what I have seen.

[00:14:01] No matter how much I've cut it back, they've always tended to be very woody at the bottom.

[00:14:07] And so if I just want it for sort of aesthetic purposes, like the purple sage is really,

[00:14:12] really pretty to just grow as a bush, then this is not that big of a deal.

[00:14:15] But if you're really wanting to use a lot of it eventually, the usable portions are going

[00:14:19] to be just way up here at the top and the rest of it's going to be really woody.

[00:14:21] So you may need to replace it.

[00:14:23] But in my experience, this has only been about every six or seven years that I've had to do this.

[00:14:27] This is another one that is also very drought tolerant.

[00:14:30] So water this one sparingly.

[00:14:32] And then if you are in zone five and you're worried about this maybe not coming back for

[00:14:37] you or you're kind of like on that border, you can absolutely mulch around the base

[00:14:41] of the plant with straw in the late fall for some added winter protection.

[00:14:46] Now, something that is perennial for most of us is mint and mint of just about any kind.

[00:14:52] So it's the good thing about mint is it also tolerates partial shade

[00:14:55] and it will also tolerate that really rich, moist soil.

[00:14:59] It will also grow in soil that has basically nothing left in it.

[00:15:03] So you can pretty much plant mint anywhere.

[00:15:06] Because of this, it does spread very, very easily.

[00:15:10] So if you're wanting to fill in an area, this is fantastic.

[00:15:13] If you want to keep it controlled, they say you can use root barriers.

[00:15:18] This is not something that I recommend just because they spread both by their underground roots

[00:15:23] but also through the top growth.

[00:15:25] Anywhere that mint comes out and touches the soil, it's going to root and it's going to continue to spread.

[00:15:31] So I would recommend if you want to keep it contained, you plant it in containers.

[00:15:36] Mint is what I'm experimenting with as a living mulch in some of my PlanterBox Direct planters out in the front.

[00:15:44] I've got 10 of those.

[00:15:45] Each one of them has been planted with some mint in the center that is spreading out nicely.

[00:15:49] And then I am planting into the mint with my plants the next season.

[00:15:54] So this was the first year I started.

[00:15:55] The plants are just now sort of getting really established and spreading.

[00:15:59] So we'll see how that works in the spring.

[00:16:01] You do want to trim it regularly to kind of control its growth.

[00:16:06] Spearmint and peppermint are your two base varieties that are pretty hardy just about anywhere.

[00:16:12] Once you get into the more fun sort of hybrids, so chocolate mint, apple mint, grapefruit mint,

[00:16:19] all of those different kinds, pineapple mint,

[00:16:21] some of them are going to do better than others in terms of being perennial.

[00:16:26] So in zone five, you're going to have a harder time getting some of these to come back.

[00:16:32] The warmer we get, the easier it is.

[00:16:34] So I have successfully overwintered.

[00:16:38] Let's see.

[00:16:38] Apple mint is one that has come back for me really, really well.

[00:16:42] And chocolate mint has come back really well for me.

[00:16:45] Pineapple mint has been hit or miss depending on how cold our winters are.

[00:16:50] So just kind of keep that in mind as you're experimenting with these different varieties of mint.

[00:16:55] But along the same lines with mint is lemon balm.

[00:16:59] And this is a fun one to keep around, not just in terms of how you can use it culinarily,

[00:17:04] but also it just is very fragrant.

[00:17:07] It is very lush when it comes back.

[00:17:09] And it does these great flowers that the pollinators love.

[00:17:12] It can also take full sun to partial shade.

[00:17:15] And so it does well in a lot of different areas.

[00:17:18] It does prefer a well-draining soil.

[00:17:20] So we don't want it to get too soggy, but we do want that soil to be, you know, watered

[00:17:29] and dry periods.

[00:17:29] So it's kind of right down the middle of the line here.

[00:17:32] Lots of different varieties out there.

[00:17:34] If you're looking for hardiness in zone five and six, all gold and variegata are two good

[00:17:39] ones that are really hardy.

[00:17:41] You just want to control it by cutting back in the late summer because it will self-seed

[00:17:49] and try to spread a little bit differently than the mint.

[00:17:52] It's not like, you know, super aggressive to where you need to keep it in a container or

[00:17:57] plants.

[00:17:57] You just do some root barriers or anything like that.

[00:17:59] I have it out in one bed and has pretty much contained itself to that one bed, but I also

[00:18:04] cut it back fairly frequently.

[00:18:06] So if once it goes to flower, you want to cut it back in late summer just to prevent it

[00:18:11] from self-seeding if you do not want it to spread.

[00:18:12] If you do want it to spread, then just let it go to town and it will do that for you.

[00:18:17] Number four on this list is tarragon.

[00:18:19] And we're looking specifically at French tarragon in zones five and six.

[00:18:23] There are a couple of others, Russian and a few others that I am not sure are quite

[00:18:27] as hardy in our areas.

[00:18:29] This is another one that likes full sun, well-draining soil.

[00:18:32] It will get to a decent size.

[00:18:34] You want to plant them about 12 to 24 inches apart.

[00:18:37] This is another one that you would cut back after it flowers just to encourage that new

[00:18:41] growth.

[00:18:41] So you'll continue to be able to use it all season long.

[00:18:44] The one thing about tarragon that we do have a problem with here is it does not love heavy

[00:18:51] clay soil.

[00:18:59] Some compost for some drainage improvement there.

[00:19:02] Or you can do it in a container and pull it up against a building to overwinter to help

[00:19:09] protect that soil from freezing too solidly.

[00:19:12] And then finally, hyssop is number five on the list for zones five and six.

[00:19:18] It is another one that likes full sun.

[00:19:20] It is a very drought tolerant herb.

[00:19:22] It thrives on very little water.

[00:19:25] True hyssop is a great cultivar that will come back for you every single year.

[00:19:30] You want to prune it lightly in the early spring just to maintain its shape.

[00:19:35] It is another one that is in the mint family.

[00:19:39] Very aromatic.

[00:19:40] It's got a nice sweet scent and it's been used both culinarily and medicinally for a very

[00:19:45] long time.

[00:19:46] If you're not familiar with hyssop.

[00:19:48] Okay, for my gardeners in zones seven through eight, now we get to get into some more of

[00:19:53] the fun herbs in terms of perennials.

[00:19:55] And first on the list is rosemary.

[00:19:57] I really wish that we could grow that year round outside here.

[00:20:00] It doesn't generally work very well.

[00:20:02] It needs full sun.

[00:20:03] It likes sandy, well-drained soil.

[00:20:05] It will grow like a bush.

[00:20:07] In fact, my former in-laws at their house in California when I was in my late teens, early

[00:20:14] 20s, they had a bush in the entryway to their house.

[00:20:19] And I knew it was a rosemary bush, but I did not know that it was like a culinary herb.

[00:20:25] I just knew it smelled really good when I walked by.

[00:20:27] And it wasn't until I was a gardener as an adult that I had this random memory of that

[00:20:32] bush.

[00:20:32] And I went, oh, wait a minute.

[00:20:34] That was rosemary.

[00:20:35] And the thing was huge.

[00:20:37] So you're going to want to splice these about three to four feet apart from each other because

[00:20:42] once they get settled in, they like to grow, you know, sort of like a hedge, which is fantastic.

[00:20:47] You do want to prune it regularly.

[00:20:49] That's going to help with the shape.

[00:20:50] And if you are like in the very edge of zone seven, maybe dipping down into zone six B sometimes,

[00:20:57] then you might want to mulch it in the wintertime.

[00:21:00] My two favorite cultivars for overwintering in your area are going to be ARP and Salem.

[00:21:05] ARP is actually one of the ones that I grow here.

[00:21:08] Just in terms of making it overwinter, we actually have to bring it indoors because it just doesn't

[00:21:13] survive our winters here.

[00:21:14] Although as we get a little bit warmer, we might be getting closer to those surviving,

[00:21:19] unfortunately.

[00:21:20] And if you are in an area like in zone seven where you do get, you know, really harsh cold

[00:21:25] snaps occasionally, you may want to mulch it in the winter and have some frost cloths

[00:21:29] on hand just to prevent any damage to those.

[00:21:32] Number two on this list is lavender.

[00:21:34] And that's another one that I every once in a while can get to come back here.

[00:21:40] And it totally depends on how cold our winters get.

[00:21:43] So last year I had one that came back for this season and it looks like this season's winter

[00:21:48] is going to be about the same.

[00:21:49] So that one may actually survive again, but this would be the first year that I have had

[00:21:53] one successfully come back two years in a row.

[00:21:56] So that tells you something.

[00:21:57] In zones seven and eight, you are going to want full sun, well-drained soil.

[00:22:03] And it does like the soil to be slightly alkaline, which a little bit different from most of our

[00:22:08] herbs and most of our vegetables.

[00:22:09] So if your soil is very acidic, you want to add some lime to it in order to bring up that

[00:22:15] pH a little bit.

[00:22:16] And this is another one that's going to bush a little bit for you.

[00:22:18] So space them about 18 to 24 inches apart.

[00:22:22] Once they flower, that's when you want to prune them back.

[00:22:26] Munstead lavender is a good low growing one.

[00:22:29] So if you are in the colder end of zones seven and eight, this one might be a good one for

[00:22:34] you because it is a little bit lower growing.

[00:22:36] The one that I had come back for me was actually a provincial lavender.

[00:22:40] So a French type of a lavender and has done fabulously well for me.

[00:22:44] Number three would be lemon verbena.

[00:22:46] I love lemon verbena, not just for its kind of culinary uses, but also just as a beautiful

[00:22:53] garden plant for bringing in pollinators.

[00:22:55] It likes full sun.

[00:22:56] It likes that nice, good drainage.

[00:22:59] These should be spaced about two feet apart from each other.

[00:23:02] On this one, you want to prune it back heavily in the spring, and that's going to stimulate

[00:23:07] that early growth.

[00:23:08] There aren't any real distinctive cultivars specifically to lemon verbena that are going

[00:23:14] to do better in this area.

[00:23:16] So they all pretty much will grow well in zones seven and eight.

[00:23:19] Again, this is one where if you are on the colder end of zone seven, then you might want

[00:23:24] to mulch it really well in the winter just in case you get any severe cold.

[00:23:29] Next on the list for you is a Mexican oregano.

[00:23:32] This is different from your regular like Greek or Mediterranean or Italian type of oregano.

[00:23:37] This one actually has more of a citrusy profile, maybe with some hints of licorice.

[00:23:42] This does well in full sun with a sandy soil.

[00:23:46] You want to space them about 18 to 24 inches apart.

[00:23:49] This is one that you would want to prune back after it flowers.

[00:23:53] Just like the lemon verbena, there aren't any real specific cultivars of this that are going

[00:23:58] to do better in your area, just your general Mexican oregano.

[00:24:02] And if you, again, are on that sort of cold side of zone seven, you might want to mulch

[00:24:08] in the wintertime, specifically with gravel, which was going to like reflect some of that

[00:24:12] heat back up.

[00:24:13] The cool thing about Mexican oregano is it will thrive in some dry conditions.

[00:24:16] So if you live somewhere where it tends to dry out at some point during the season, then

[00:24:21] this is a good option for you.

[00:24:23] And so is number five on our list, which is catnip.

[00:24:26] Once again, we all know what we can use catnip for in terms of our cats, culinarily.

[00:24:30] But also it's just a really great herb to have in the garden for the pollinators and

[00:24:36] also for just like the beauty of it.

[00:24:38] It will take full sun to partial shade.

[00:24:41] So it will do just fine in those part shade areas.

[00:24:44] It does like that well-drained soil.

[00:24:46] It is very drought tolerant.

[00:24:48] So you want to water it sparingly, actually, or not at all.

[00:24:52] Common catnip is what you want to plant.

[00:24:54] And this is another one that you would want to prune after flowering.

[00:24:58] Not only does that promote the better growth.

[00:24:59] But it also prevents it from self-seeding because this one is a spreader.

[00:25:04] So if you don't want it to fill in in the entire area, then you definitely want to prune

[00:25:09] it back after it flowers so it doesn't self-seed itself all over the place.

[00:25:14] Moving into my gardening friends in zones 9 and 10.

[00:25:18] Great perennial herbs for you are going to be things like, number one, lemongrass.

[00:25:22] I love lemongrass for like my teas.

[00:25:25] You can also use it in a bunch of different dishes.

[00:25:27] I actually am staring at one sort of pathetic version of lemongrass over on my table over

[00:25:33] here that I had outside in a pot all summer long.

[00:25:36] And unfortunately, at the end of the summer, I let it get too dried out.

[00:25:40] And now I'm trying to nurse it back to health.

[00:25:42] We'll see whether or not it survives or if I'm just going to have to start all over again

[00:25:45] in the spring.

[00:25:47] It does like full sun.

[00:25:48] It likes a rich, well-drained soil.

[00:25:51] They will grow in these clumps and so you want to space them about 24 inches apart from

[00:25:56] each other.

[00:25:56] You do want to keep the soil moist and mulch it in the summer to keep it moist.

[00:26:01] That was the problem that I had.

[00:26:03] You know, it just got really hot and really dry and I kind of forgot about it with all

[00:26:07] the rest of the plants that were on my porch.

[00:26:09] So my bad.

[00:26:10] This is something that you're going to want to cut back in the late fall for overwintering

[00:26:14] so you don't keep the greens exposed all winter to allow for any kind of damage.

[00:26:19] The next one is culinary bay or bay laurel.

[00:26:22] This one also needs full sun.

[00:26:25] Like swell-draining soil, these will bush out for you.

[00:26:28] So space these three to four feet apart.

[00:26:30] You want to water this regularly in dry conditions.

[00:26:33] And this one just needs to be pruned about once a year just to maintain its shape.

[00:26:38] The cultivar Saratoga is really good for your area in terms of overwintering and coming

[00:26:43] back.

[00:26:44] You do want to mulch it well in the winter, especially if you live in an area that gets

[00:26:48] frost.

[00:26:48] We just want to protect that root system to make sure that it comes back for you.

[00:26:52] Number three on the list of perennial herbs for zones nine and ten is Mexican mint marigold.

[00:26:58] Yes, it's a tegetus like our regular marigolds that we think of in the garden, but it is a

[00:27:02] little bit different.

[00:27:03] It's a perennial plant.

[00:27:04] It's native to Mexico and to Central America.

[00:27:07] It's been used as a medicinal plant and as a culinary herb.

[00:27:10] The leaves kind of smell like tarragon with little hints of anise.

[00:27:15] So this is a good one for a full sun and sandy, well-drained soil area.

[00:27:22] Most of these in zones nine and ten are going to like that sandy, well-drained soil because

[00:27:27] that typically is what you've got anyway.

[00:27:29] You want to space these plants about 12 inches apart.

[00:27:32] This is one that gets pruned after flowering, not to worry about it spreading, but basically

[00:27:37] to kind of help it keep a bushy growth habit.

[00:27:40] There aren't very many widely differentiated cultivars on this one, so just look for Mexican

[00:27:46] mint marigold.

[00:27:47] You do want to keep the soil moderately moist during the growing season to help it be its

[00:27:54] best little plant.

[00:27:55] The fourth one is epazote.

[00:27:57] This is a Central American herb.

[00:27:59] It's got a very pungent flavor.

[00:28:00] It does have medicinal properties.

[00:28:02] It's used a lot in Mexican dishes.

[00:28:04] This is another one that likes those full sun, sandy, well-drained soil.

[00:28:08] You sensing a theme here?

[00:28:09] Yeah.

[00:28:10] These plants should be spaced about 12 to 18 inches apart.

[00:28:13] Once they are established, they are very, very hardy.

[00:28:16] You can actually don't really need to water them very much.

[00:28:19] So these are another one that are good for kind of drought conditions.

[00:28:22] You want to harvest the younger leaves for the best flavor and, you know, just kind of

[00:28:28] trim it to kind of maintain its shape.

[00:28:31] And then finally, marjoram.

[00:28:33] Marjoram is a bit different in terms of flavor than our regular oregano, even though they are

[00:28:38] both in the same species.

[00:28:40] Full sun, light sandy soil.

[00:28:42] You know the drill.

[00:28:42] You want to space plants about 12 inches apart.

[00:28:44] This is another one that you want to water sparingly and trim regularly because it will

[00:28:49] kind of tend to get a little wild in its growth habit.

[00:28:53] So if you just keep trimming it back, number one, that's going to encourage the growth,

[00:28:56] but it's also going to kind of keep it, you know, and maintain a nice shape.

[00:29:00] Sweet marjoram would be my favorite for overwintering in this area.

[00:29:04] And if you're worried about it not getting the best drainage in terms of your soil, then

[00:29:09] you can use gravel or sand as a mulch to kind of enhance that soil drainage.

[00:29:17] Now, just because something wasn't on the list doesn't mean it's not a perennial in

[00:29:21] your area.

[00:29:21] I just picked some of the most popular ones or the ones that I think that would do best

[00:29:25] into these areas.

[00:29:26] It also doesn't mean that something's not a candidate to overwinter indoors.

[00:29:30] Like I said, in my area, it can be tough to overwinter rosemary and lavender.

[00:29:36] So those are often brought indoors for the winter.

[00:29:38] The same goes for bay laurel.

[00:29:40] So if you really want something to overwinter because it got big and beautiful during the

[00:29:45] growing season and you just can't bear to part with it, there are a few tips for overwintering

[00:29:49] herbs in pots indoors.

[00:29:52] Just keep in mind that not all herbs transition well indoors.

[00:29:56] Some of the annuals like basil that really prefer consistent warmth might actually struggle

[00:30:04] when you bring them in.

[00:30:04] So if it's your first time overwintering herbs, try to focus on things that are going

[00:30:08] to be the more hardy perennials in most areas.

[00:30:11] So thyme, oregano, and even marjoram, rosemary, chives, and mint.

[00:30:15] These herbs are much more adaptable to indoor conditions.

[00:30:19] I will say that if you can start them in pots and keep them in pots and just bring them in

[00:30:25] and out, then that's going to be your best bet.

[00:30:27] You can try annual herbs like basil if you, number one, keep it cut back during the winter

[00:30:34] time while it's inside and, number two, you provide it with the warmth and the light that

[00:30:38] it really needs.

[00:30:39] So I'm not discouraging you from trying.

[00:30:41] Just know that it's going to take a little bit more effort on your part to keep it going.

[00:30:45] Other annuals to try to overwinter indoors would be dill so long as it was grown in a pot outdoors

[00:30:51] because it's got a really long taproot so it's not going to take very well to being transplanted.

[00:30:56] But if you start it in a pot and you can bring it in, then you might be able to keep that

[00:30:59] going.

[00:31:00] And chervil, which actually does pretty well in indirect light situations.

[00:31:04] So it may do well in a home that doesn't have great windows with lots of light.

[00:31:10] If this is something that you're going to try to dig up out of the garden to bring indoors

[00:31:16] for the winter, you want to do this before your first frost hits.

[00:31:19] Dig up those herbs and kind of inspect those roots.

[00:31:22] Trim off any of the damaged or excessively long roots.

[00:31:25] This is going to promote some fresh growth once you get it potted up.

[00:31:30] So just use some fresh potting soil in some clean pots with some nice good drainage holes

[00:31:34] and pot it up the way that you would normally transplant any other plant.

[00:31:37] You do want to try to prevent introducing any outdoor buggies into your house.

[00:31:44] So what I generally do is I use Elm Dirt's Shield and I will pot up the plant outside

[00:31:51] or if it's already in the pot, I keep it outside.

[00:31:53] I will spray it down thoroughly and then give it a couple of days to just sit.

[00:31:58] Try to make sure that everything is dead and gone.

[00:32:01] And then I will spray it down really well with the hose to knock off anything extra

[00:32:04] and then sort of let it air dry outside before I bring it into the house.

[00:32:08] That way I am sure that I am not bringing in anything with the plant.

[00:32:13] Once they're inside, most herbs need at least six to eight hours of light per day to thrive.

[00:32:20] They will survive on four to six hours.

[00:32:24] So the difference will be whether you intend to really use them over the wintertime at all

[00:32:29] or if you just want them to kind of sit in stasis and hang on until you move them outside.

[00:32:34] So if your natural light isn't sufficient enough for this, then you might consider using grow lights.

[00:32:40] LED grow lights have gotten very inexpensive and very convenient in terms of being able to just pop them into pots

[00:32:47] or maybe place a strip under a shelf somewhere.

[00:32:50] So that should be an option for you if you really want to kind of maintain really healthy herbs indoors.

[00:32:57] And then finally, you just want to manage the watering and the humidity.

[00:33:01] Our indoor environments, especially in the wintertime in cooler areas, can tend to be much more on the dry side

[00:33:10] if we're, you know, heating the house constantly.

[00:33:12] So you want to keep the soil slightly moist, but you don't want them waterlogged.

[00:33:17] Herbs do not like having their feet wet and they can be prone to root rot if you keep them in soggy soil.

[00:33:23] So this is not a situation where I would say to bottom water them.

[00:33:27] You actually do want them to dry out just a little bit at the bottom between waterings.

[00:33:32] But in order to increase the humidity around them, you can either take a spray bottle and just mist them occasionally

[00:33:36] or you can place a tray of water with pebbles in it nearby.

[00:33:41] And that will naturally sort of humidify the area around the plants.

[00:33:45] And you can also group all of these plants together.

[00:33:48] That's going to create sort of a little micro humid environment that's going to benefit each one of the plants.

[00:33:55] No matter what you do, you know, perennial herbs, whether you are keeping them outside or you bringing them in,

[00:34:02] can actually just liven up our dishes throughout the wintertime if we are able to go ahead and continue using them.

[00:34:10] The other thing is if you can keep them outside and you have things that come back every single year,

[00:34:15] it just makes life so much easier.

[00:34:17] It is one less thing that you have to put on your to-do list in the spring when you have so much else going on in the garden.

[00:34:22] So I absolutely encourage you, look for herbs that might be perennial in your area.

[00:34:27] Use this list as a guide.

[00:34:29] And just remember, if you look on the plant tag and it says it's a perennial, make sure it's a perennial in your area.

[00:34:35] Until next time, my gardening friends, keep on cultivating that dream garden and we'll talk again soon.

[00:34:40] Thanks for listening to another episode of the Just Grow Something podcast.

[00:34:43] For more information about today's topic and to find all the ways you can get in touch with me or support the show,

[00:34:49] go to justgrowsomethingpodcast.com.

[00:34:52] Until next time, my gardening friends, keep learning and keep growing.

[00:34:56] We'll see you next time.